tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post116027838464626213..comments2024-03-28T14:03:05.228-07:00Comments on Execupundit.com: The Rude Dutch?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger262125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-9320633575108255442024-02-17T01:41:41.890-07:002024-02-17T01:41:41.890-07:00I stumbled upon this post.
For many years when dis...I stumbled upon this post.<br />For many years when discussing travel I have been trying to articulate my very negative experiences with Holland which has sometimes been difficult to people who have not spent any longer than a weekend there.<br />It is the most hellish place you could live. <br />I am an empath so I am pretty sensitive to energy and mood which in turn affects the way I feel and behave.<br />I had some terrible experiences with the Dutch - experiences that go beyond rudeness and into hatred and intentional awkwardness and victimisation. There must be something deeper here, something unexplained as the level they are at is extraordinary. <br />The issue is at it's worst in the Randstad (between Rotterdam, Amsterdam and Utrecht), and certainly improves the further south you go.<br />I have a lot of experience in Germany, France, Denmark and Sweden - and this type and level of negative vindictive behaviour is not at all present. In fact I have a love for these other nations but a massive dislike for the Dutch and as a result, also for Holland.Dhdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03358411869615965829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-28918067468531132282022-04-14T05:08:38.342-07:002022-04-14T05:08:38.342-07:00Typical word salad from buttgurt dutchie, you miss...Typical word salad from buttgurt dutchie, you missed the point entirelyAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05887515695275675599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-87883736529963248312022-04-14T04:56:13.196-07:002022-04-14T04:56:13.196-07:00From eastern europe myself, bri, you just took wor...From eastern europe myself, bri, you just took word out of my mouth, best description of cloggies!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05887515695275675599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-50905890921836357862022-04-14T03:56:09.625-07:002022-04-14T03:56:09.625-07:00Oh girl, same here, couldn't belittle myself t...Oh girl, same here, couldn't belittle myself to the point of actually bonding and dating that dutch guy but man, what a bigoted, entitled, arrogant ugly human. Ignoring dutch guys at all, knowing that they've got absolutely nothing to offer except their judgemnt and stinginess (and anger issues)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05887515695275675599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-3168300095438771382022-04-14T03:46:50.991-07:002022-04-14T03:46:50.991-07:00Well after living in 6 countries and working in to...Well after living in 6 countries and working in tourism in 3 more plus traveled well ans speaking 6 languages (never dutch the language sound horrible tbh) never seen so arrogant, bigoted, narrow minded entitled bunch of humans. Totally different breed of humans, they should kiss our ass for paying awful taxes andbrents and raising their economy. Also, i am in about 12 expat groups and only in nl expats feeling this way. Dutch are just bunch of useless f***s, also as tourists they are just terrible to have around, dont be delusionalAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05887515695275675599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-36534866769078508342019-11-11T01:32:07.165-07:002019-11-11T01:32:07.165-07:00We don't see each other as rude. We are not of...We don't see each other as rude. We are not offended when someone doesnt like our hair, our bag or calls us a " cheese head ". That's what the political correct and easily offended people on the planet would call a very racist and offending derogatory slur) when used to them / their country / nationality. And of course make a HUGE problem about nothing. Meanwhile we call yourself cheese heads.. <br />The victim mentality and the outrage culture do not help any situation or anyone personal at all. And most certainly not the offended person. It is a choice to give away your power completely and let other people and words decide how you feel. <br />YOU are respondible for how you feel. If your feelings are hurt because someone was rude to you/ because of a word I think you are emotionally immature. You need to take responsibility for how you feel and react, develop some resiliency, self reliance and a sense of humour. <br />Or in other words: put on your big boy / girl pants and grow up. <br />But then again, how mature is a society that connot take ANY form of criticism or even different opinions and just calls EVERYTHING shaming:fat, thin,age,tall shaming... And if your fat because you eat to much and sit on your ass all day long not even your doctor can say it. Because oh no! Fat shaming! <br />Instead, all responsibility is taken away from the fatass because thin people have thin-privilige... <br />Seriously? You name every normal discussion impossible LIKE THAT. A society that uses terms like : the n word, the c word etc.. <br />Where not even a news anchor can say the word ( because it was in a news item) and starts to cry when another person just says it, exactly like it actually happened. <br /><br />To us that behavior is incredibly immature, over emotional, fake and its seen as very unwanted behavior. <br /><br />This is not kinder garden. Adults don't start to cry because of a word, we don't value those childish and narcissistic traits. Getting triggered is a weakness. <br />And also don't forget:<br />That you are offended doesn't mean that it was offensive.<br /><br />And for the love of God, just say what you want, think, etc. NO ONE has any benefit from by all means, NO matter what, DONT SAY ANYTHING BAD. Instead if be honest and actually communicating. <br /><br />AND omg... Hahaha : " dutch people ARE SO RUDE!!! SOMEONE GAVE ME HAIR DYE!! " <br /><br />Calm down, you will be fine. <br />Maybe who knows, youll get over yourself and see that its very sweet when someone thinks about you and gives you a gift. <br /><br />Catwalkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04636038248197749560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-88903168819389501972019-04-10T07:15:09.371-07:002019-04-10T07:15:09.371-07:00I'm an American with a family member who marri...I'm an American with a family member who married into a Dutch family that moved from Amsterdam 20 or 30 years ago. <br /><br />This is only one family, but the experiences described in this blog have helped me understand the problems I've had: they talk about themselves, there's NO interest in who I am, or in getting to know me, and they feel free to pass judgement on what I do that's right or wrong (mostly wrong). <br /><br />The Dutch who live in America would be wise to learn our ways, whether they agree with them or not. The so-called directness is all too often one way, and all too often viewed as rude by the Americans they live amongst. <br />~ ~ ~https://www.blogger.com/profile/01140145944465896332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-60834350814680144032018-07-25T17:06:13.867-07:002018-07-25T17:06:13.867-07:00I'm living for 20 years in the Netherlands. Ye...I'm living for 20 years in the Netherlands. Yes, they are very rude, ARROGANT and RACIST!! I remember when I was about 20 years old I was dancing in a house party, I step accidentally on the foot of a young girl, right away I asked her to excuse me then she replied me: 'WHAT THA F*** YOU NEED TO RESPECT ME I'm DUTCH'. I bought and apartment few years ago in Amsterdam, every time I go out to the roof terrace they gang up together and start to insult me. You will listen also a lot of insults like 'vies migrant' I think it means filthy immigrant. All the love and respect that I had once for the Dutch people is gone long ago, this is why I'm leaving the country. BTW they are very jealous, if you have some success in life do yourself a favor and keep low profile to avoid more hate from them. Thanks god I'm not from any of the minorities because poor dudes they have it really hard.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16300300424645486815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-18793000565260907442017-10-16T11:35:41.255-07:002017-10-16T11:35:41.255-07:00i just escaped to portugal, i am born in holland a...i just escaped to portugal, i am born in holland and lived there 37 miserable years.<br />The comments above are an awakening to me. the stupid way the dutch defend themselves above with this repetition " but we are good bravoure" is so familiar. Above we are defending our ego against a foreign accusation. <br />Normally we are busy defending our narcistic ego to other fellow man and looking for the reward we feel in making someone else feel inferiour.<br />I thought this was nasty human behaviour normal to the human race but your comments give me hope that maybe humans can be different.<br /><br />it seems to me the dutch are only aware of the material, i dont know if they are aware of what really motivates them..<br />Is this social prestige, bullying sucking on cowmilk stolen from babycalfs who never see daylight and get slaughtered at 3 months really gratifying?<br />As they could respond with there straightforwardness " ja hoor, ik vind het wel lekker hoor/ yes i like it <br />Its so sad to see those modern women with there short hair acting like men joining our competetive ratrace, unconicously they what they rrally want is a strap on dildo and humiliate someone,<br /><br />I escaped and am never returning to this country of the perverted whom only take pleasure in fullfilling all there senses instantly.<br /><br />They to me are the most snob negative insincere selfish fucking race i know and i hope not representitive for the rest of the human race.<br /><br />I think because the weather is bad and not much nature is around so all that gratifys them is bringing material stuff to there small boxes.<br />And suffer from inferiourity complex cause there parents put them in kindergarten or neglected there needs like there parents needs were neglected once.<br /><br />Thanks for opening my eyes with your marvolous critique, i hope i can untrain my brain of the inferiourcomplex im infected with and all the humilation and negative energy i had to suck up all my life.<br />I will commit suicide before i ever step foot on that country again. <br /><br />Look at our houses, all the same colour brick, same shape next to eachoter. Dont even try to paint it a warm colour you will not get away with it.<br />And you neighboors are competition you can consider yourselve lucky if they greet you and dont give you the evil eye, let alone get to know you.<br /><br />i feel the dutch dont have any soul,a cold people amongst whom in the most densly populated countru i gree isolated and lonely, there are aldo good people ofcourse but rare.<br /><br />Goodbye Den Haag i hope i will suffer memoryloss and forget about youAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02913678470442492889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-24611629128480964592016-11-03T14:29:37.605-07:002016-11-03T14:29:37.605-07:00I can totally agree with everyone who doesn't ...I can totally agree with everyone who doesn't like the Dutch. I can't get myself to like them either. It's not even arrogance I would say, they just don't give a shit about you and they really let you know. I mean, I don't really care about strangers either and most people don't. You can't care about anyone and anything. That's normal. But the Dutch literally just couldn't care less about you (if they don't already know you). <br /><br />A French person might think "My country is the greatest and you can be so happy to be here" but a Dutch person thinks "I don't give a shit about you. I don't want to know anything about you. I don't want to listen to anything you have to say". They are unbelievably selfish and rude.<br />They are so weird. Even their eyes. They have those creepy soulless eyes. Like they are completely empty inside like sociopaths. <br />Or do you know a single likeable Dutch football star? They are all pricks if you ask me. Arjen Robben being the prime example. <br /><br />Why are they like that? Is there something in their water or what? Is it a special climate there? The topology of the country? How do you get to be like that? <br />Lots of people from many different countries like to nag but for the Dutch nagging is like breathing. They can't live without it. They can't get by if they can't make at least a few snippy comments every day. <br /><br />At least one thing makes sense to me. That they are so liberal about drugs. That's simply because they don't give a shit about any other person and what this person is doing. That's why weed is legal. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-46784055487049922402016-09-10T13:52:21.324-07:002016-09-10T13:52:21.324-07:00This comment is simply a test to see if the commen...This comment is simply a test to see if the comments section is working. I want to make sure that all approved comments get through.<br /><br />MichaelMichael Wadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08762773757535724585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-21883891205316687392016-09-09T05:14:43.072-07:002016-09-09T05:14:43.072-07:00Funny thing is I'm an American, but have brown...Funny thing is I'm an American, but have brown skin... so I get to experience the racism (until they realize I'm American then the tune changes)... If I'm chatting with a stranger out, people assume I sweep streets and basically treat me like s**t until they find out I have a successful company and am in the Dutch 1%... well of course then it's how they can cling on to me (fun to smack them with "I don't deal with Dutch... they're far to racist and intolerant... maybe when your society grows up" and walk away).<br /><br />They also do love to get in your face and bully... but I'm a body building, kick boxing guy... and so rather than passive-aggressive BS I give them the manners lesson that their parents should have (probably why Dutch kids are the happiest in the world... they get no discipline)... but 10x harder... a smack and suddenly they turn into whinny little princesses.<br /><br />Just as they went all over the world in the past to "civilize the savages" (more like sell them and make cash)... we expats are here now to do the same with the Dutch... <br /><br />Of course I blame my country (America)... after WWII we should have let Germany keep the country... the Germans learned their lesson and maybe the Dutch would have followed... as it is they haven't and now we have a country that behaves like a spoiled, bullying brat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-87230219043460553202016-09-09T04:55:26.823-07:002016-09-09T04:55:26.823-07:00The comments from the dutch certain reinforce the ...The comments from the dutch certain reinforce the fact that they're simply clueless as to how uncivilized they are... I've live all over the world (and here for 6 years) and came here with the idea that the Dutch are the greatest... this is the first country (and I've lived in China, Africa, India, Hong Kong, all over Europe, US... missing South America) where after learning the culture and people I have a total dislike for them (came to China disliking, then learned the culture and came to like them).<br /><br />Forget this "no, we're just direct" straw man... the Dutch cut in line, gossip and back bite, push, shove and yeah they're culture is different... selfish, rude and arrogant. They have no native word for "excuse me" or "sorry"... language tells you how a group models the world. This is a country that is based on simple-mindedness and greed and that's how they're culture, food (I would never insult the word cuisine) and language have developed.<br /><br />If you get a group of expats together in Holland they spend most of the time ragging on the various uncivilized ways of the Dutch. And most expats have stopped trying to include Dutch in their friend circles (I no longer will date a Dutch person).<br /><br />I can go on for pages, but bottom line is if you read/hear a expat speaking well of the Dutch it's because either: 1) They're a rude, uncivilized person themselves so it seems normal... or 2) They're masking the truth to make their lives here tolerable as they don't have the option to not interact with a lot of the local Dutch folks.<br /><br />The Germans and French get a bad rap for rude thing... in my book when I want to call out someone's horrible behavior (or bad food) I just call it DutchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-22823324805173956252016-08-06T08:14:50.396-07:002016-08-06T08:14:50.396-07:00Spent 20 years in the Netherlands. Partially grew ...Spent 20 years in the Netherlands. Partially grew up there. A more mean spirited folk you will not meet. My happiness increased as soon as I left. Other countries actually treated me as equal and fulfil my potential.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-44598472270114025042016-04-22T09:00:48.208-07:002016-04-22T09:00:48.208-07:00Biggest mistake of my life!!!
Maybe self-selectio...Biggest mistake of my life!!!<br /><br />Maybe self-selection but as a foreigner having lived here for 13 years I have never come across a group of more aggravating, annoying, self-centred, self entitled individuals in my life.<br />You can open the door for a woman (or a man) and you do not get or very rarely get a thank you- happened many times. You let a car into the traffic- also nada.<br /><br />I have traveled to many places around the world and never come across such rudeness. I also have never in my entire life had more run-ins, verbal and sometimes border-line physical with a bunch of more disagreeable Europeans in my life.<br />Wish I could go back home but I reckon the Dutch owe me seeing as they helped place sanctions on my country of birth. Guess that stems from their sense of treating everyone else like they are above reproach.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-35932735508030788272016-04-11T12:23:23.482-07:002016-04-11T12:23:23.482-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02142239395343655972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-90538315178431716722016-04-11T06:32:55.608-07:002016-04-11T06:32:55.608-07:00There are some very nice Dutch people. But there a...There are some very nice Dutch people. But there are Devil's spawn Dutch as well. Avoid the trains, that's where most rude people are in my experience. I live since 2014 here and I go out of my way to avoid Dutch people these days. They go on asking e questions as they assume I am Dutch (based on looks, that's racist!). Once I open my mouth they shrug me off, I guess my Eastern Europeanness means I am below them. What if I go to them an say "Sorry, do yo know... oh never mind, you have blue eyes, bye!" Would that be directness? And have you noticed that they avoid contact with people of colour and Asians, mixed marriages are very uncommon and not the norm as they would let you believe?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-88137797641752863062016-01-05T16:41:14.443-07:002016-01-05T16:41:14.443-07:00Rude is rude, whether direct or indirect. I've...Rude is rude, whether direct or indirect. I've lived here for 10 years and I am still shocked by the lack of basic warmth, friendliness, courtesy and by the amount of mean assholes per capita. I have indeed met some very nice Dutch people, but even they don't realize how exceptionally rude their society is. And I've heard excuses that it depends where you are, not true. Studied in the south, lived in the north then the Hague, all the same. Like most expats, can't wait to leave, and you just need to step over the border and you feel the difference immediately. Rude, loud, selfish, mean, mean, mean. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-91842818215102261462016-01-04T11:19:40.385-07:002016-01-04T11:19:40.385-07:00Omg agree with the comments about the rudeness! i ...Omg agree with the comments about the rudeness! i also spent a lot of time with the Belgian dutch people although flemish...some of their traits were very similar to the nl dutch like EXtreme STINGINESS, being friendly on the surface but very bitchy deep down even bitching about their best friends out of jealousy and the most ridiculous thing-materialism to such a level i cant even describe !!! one guy asked me who was the richest amongst my friends ! like wtf what 25 yeal old doctor asks such immature questions...i was amused by how everything was about MONEY in every single conversation...i hope and i am sure not all the flemish nd dutch are like that jeeezAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-60712490402936574792015-12-13T08:31:58.291-07:002015-12-13T08:31:58.291-07:00I am incredibly relieved read the above comments. ...I am incredibly relieved read the above comments. It's rather unfortunate to say the least, but now, I know it's not just my husband and I being paranoid in any way. We have always loved Amsterdam and moved here 5months ago only to find the Dutch people to be the exact opposite of how we initially perceived them, warm and friendly. <br /><br />Today, I was shouted at by an adult, a grown woman started to scream at me as if I had taken her first born away from her as we decided to swap our seats in a soup shop as we didn't have a table, to two seats with a table, kindly given to us by two tourists as they could see us struggling and they had finished eating. <br />I got ATTACKED by his woman as she had IN HER MIND, whilst standing in the queue, decided that she wanted those seats so she jumped in front of me and started screaming. "You chose those seats, you are not allowed to change seats!! I want these seats!" <br />With the look of horror on our faces as well as the lovely tourist couple, I just had to say ok ok ok calm down, calm down. <br /><br />Didn't realise she was the dictator of seats in this world. <br /><br />Sadly this is not the first time we have been shouted at whilst trying to have a day out but his is a normal, reoccurrent incident. Part of everyday life. <br /><br />Direct? You need a reality check! This is lack of any common sense. These people (the screaming sort) are incredibly uncivilised and clearly not very well travelled people as this sort if behaviour would be non existent ANYWHERE else in the world. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-62711097970472600942015-08-08T10:21:47.332-07:002015-08-08T10:21:47.332-07:00Dutch are rude and ignorant. Especially the men.Th...Dutch are rude and ignorant. Especially the men.They butt in line ,push you aside ,and what they think is honesty is in fact ignorant brain farts /ridiculous outbursts that leave sane ,non dutch,aghast at what came out of their mouths.they have ridiculous merit less prejudices.they believe they are open minded but in reality they are isolated up tight narrow minded Calvinists or whatever their past religious prejudices were in their up bringing.They feel guilt at everything that is good in life and can only allow themselves to feel good when they are drunk or drugged up,pissing on sidewalks.they are unwilling to try any thing new,wether it is food,a different point of view or God forbid ,listening to a woman .the women here behave towards men as a scene from Mad Men.Especially beware of men with long flowing fake blonde shoulder length locks that they shake and pat back constantly as they talk.yuck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-85736674163249630532015-07-25T01:09:30.377-07:002015-07-25T01:09:30.377-07:00I've lived in The Netherlands for some time no...I've lived in The Netherlands for some time now, mostly because the partner I have is Dutch. I'd hoped to move back home and enjoy a much higher quality of life and beautiful weather year round. As it turns out my partner has had excuses for not acquiring the visas to emigrate there, I have the ability to live and work in NL, so his laziness and my settling has kept us here.<br />It doesn't feel like living, more like existing. The way I behave is to mostly keep to myself, have earphones in always and barely notice anybody. When I go about my way not listening to music I have many people making remarks I'd rather ignore. <br />A couple of times in the past I made the mistake of answering comments men made (complete strangers) and they became physical. I am a very slim and small woman and am disgusted that any man could turn their anger into abuse. These were small incidents (one didn't like a response and told me to walk on and I said that I will walk where I want. The second called my dog right when I was taking some photographs having the dog leash in my hand. The dog ran towards the man and my shoulder tore. I asked the man to please not do that. He pushed me into a wall and yelled for me to "go and take all my people with me" So tell me then I said, Which people are they? As few people from my country have any reason to move here ever, only multitudes of Dutch moving there, the gross, spitting man in his late 50's could only become more angry at his own ignorance.<br />Incidents like that colour the years I have lived in the Netherlands and I wish that I could balance out the negative experiences with more positive. I am mostly very bored. Workplaces have been terrible and I have been ostracized and picked on by cowards.<br />Probably I've allowed myself to become a victim in this society but I feel too down these days to want to experience more here. It seems that in a small land people will do whatever they can to take up space. Being polite towards others will not make them reciprocate. It is a matter of matching people's rudeness or retreating to watch it all and barely interact. <br />Women boldly stare all the time. It would feel like being under a microscope to the uninitiated. I see it and then look on, I can't be bothered going head to head in a glaring competition with other women but if looks could kill I'd be made dead ten times or more a day. There appears to be a lot of resentment towards people for their difference and I can only see tolerance of Dutch people towards their own kind. They would start at you for having a stain on your sneaker sole yet fail to see the insane disasters their fellow people sport daily in the name of fashion. Animal print (as fluorescent as possible) all summer and animal fur as revolting as possible all winter..<br />People will cough without covering their mouths and it will often be in order to get your attention as you pass each other if you have not looked at them. <br />A lot of empty vessels making a lot of noise. Dutch courage is considered a source of pride and best observed and heard Friday nights in bars.<br />My partner is given respect, I am not, so I encourage him to be assertive for the both of us. At least I know that he won't get beaten, pushed or otherwise encounter physical harm at a moments notice. I am naturally assertive, full of life and fun but that positive side has gone into hiding here. When I have been on vacation and returned to The Netherlands tanned and relaxed, it takes jealous people about a week to have stamped all the happiness away again. <br />I read a comment once that the form of Dutch humour is schadenfreude and I think I agree with that. Nothing seems to make people happier than see you stuff up, slip or embarrass yourself somehow and all for their sardonically superior amusement. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-75384182350960448792015-05-23T13:15:11.475-07:002015-05-23T13:15:11.475-07:0030% ruling30% rulingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-88323341505198959952015-05-03T00:58:02.090-07:002015-05-03T00:58:02.090-07:00Easy on, don't give them rope to hang you with...Easy on, don't give them rope to hang you with. However terminology such as Swamp run through my head often also.. Congratulations to escaping... Wich some of the Dutch posters should also note words such as "If you don't like it leave" are shallow life has some strange twists and turns making it hard to leave even if you dispise your surroundings. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20242261.post-78166659414448042652015-05-03T00:53:35.043-07:002015-05-03T00:53:35.043-07:00That's well said, however some of the stronges...That's well said, however some of the strongest arguments on this forum are from people who have lived in the Netlherlands for excessive amounts of time, in saying I'm sure they met more than just "a few people". In addition some of the complaints come from Dutch people thereselfs and some of the rudest responses posted are by Dutch people. Most of the counter arguments made in fact are written as defence to offence. And I'm quite sure that we didn't all stumble across this forum accidentally. Let alone once again that there is an issue at hand otherwise nobody would of taken the time to write let alone respond to any forum regardless of what.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com