"Yeah, that's a problem."
"How big of a problem is it?"
"Not very big."
"Have you ever calculated its indirect costs?"
"No. We just focus on the direct ones. Those are the ones that get measured."
"If the indirect costs, such as the amount of staff time affected across the organization, were calculated, would that be a large number?"
"Now that you mention it, I suppose it would be significant."
"And within your own department?"
"I see where you're going. It's a much bigger problem than we thought."